>> i don't think jim lehrer needs to. >> okay. the knockout blow. are we going to see it when we hear? >> i think you will. the people in the hall missed it during the infamous gore debate because we didn't hear the sign. if you have that awkward moment and people jump back, that's the sort of thing that can change the trajectory. >> mark, your thoughts. processing answers, like bob bowl when he says that bill is a markup. >> exactly. i can get this out of conference. we can go forward. i think that a lot of the discourse in politics and in debates can be about process, about who's got a plan or why you've done a certain thing. often one candidate will try to accuse another. the think the winner is the one who sticks to, what do the american people care about? how to specific the economy and don't get bogged down in the process. it's easy to flip. >> do you think it's a problem -- you talk about being optimistic. these guys are used to throwing red meat out, getting nurtured. the rules are -- there is no noise, no reaction. so you throw out what you